Annie Wylie: Hey Facebook world. I'm Annie, we're here for ReachOut Safer Internet Day Facebook Live session. So I work for ReachOut. I work as the content manager for Parents and Youth and I'm joined by the lovely Simon and Krisztina or K.J. I'll probably swap between K.J. and Krisztina throughout. Krisztina: Just K.J. Annie Wylie: And we're going to have a hopefully really great discussion about internet use and social media use for teenagers so we're really excited to have you guys here. I'll tell you a little bit about us all. So this is Simon. Simon Cobley: Hi. Annie Wylie: Simon is 20 so she's just past the teen years, just made it out. Simon Cobley: Just. Annie Wylie: And so is here to kind of do the been there done that of the young person vibe. So Simon had a fair bit of experience with mental health issues throughout her entire life and this is really like led to where she is today in terms of running her own business or starting her own business. And Simon is a certified Instagramer, got like 20,000 followers or so. Krisztina: That's amazing. Annie Wylie: So knows a thing or two about social but also was telling me about how social has been really eyeopening for your self expression and for your ability to kind of get help for yourself and also help others. Simon Cobley: Yeah, definitely. Annie Wylie: So yeah, it would be really interesting to hear from Simon today with some of the questions that you guys have submitted. And this is K.J. Krisztina: Hello. Annie Wylie: So K.J has four kids. Krisztina: This is my night out. Annie Wylie: It's crazy in the office. So K.J has a 15-year old, a 13-year old and a eight-year old and a six-year old. So really living it. Krisztina: Living the dream in the SUV with the seven seats. [crosstalk 00:02:18] I know, just don't go there. Annie Wylie: And most of your kids use social media. Krisztina: Gadgets connected from ... Yeah, even the six-year old is. Annie Wylie: Yeah. And I know you ... So K.J was saying to me that every day she sort of navigating the internet, its impact on your kids and what it means for your lives. And whilst you find it fascinating, you also find it terrifying. Krisztina: Of course. Annie Wylie: And you said that not a week goes by without some challenge thanks to being connected and having that experience. Krisztina: Definitely. Annie Wylie: So K.J is also on social media and tries to double to stay relevant and keep up to speed with what's happening. So it would be really great to hear from you about what you do with your own kids and ... Krisztina: Definitely. Annie Wylie: Maybe get some comments. Krisztina: I have to get your feedback, they're being shared. Annie Wylie: This is a safe space, no judgement . Krisztina: No judgement . And I have to say most important thing is no judgement because we're all kind of feeling away. We're raising the first generation of totally connected children as parents, I know I am. And there's just no ... I mean, there is right or wrong I guess but you never get it every day. And the goalpost changes to that extent. It's day by day and no judgement . I mean, you can fail but you can hit the jackpot. Annie Wylie: And yeah, I sort of said who I was. So Annie, I work for ReachOut, do a lot of content for parent service and work with parents on a really regular basis; what they want, what they don't want, what they need help with, what a tough time means to them. So I'm really excited to be able to get to chat to you guys. So the reason we're here is because it's Safer Internet Day. The most exciting of all holidays and I'm not sure why it's not a public holiday to be honest. Krisztina: But we're online so it's safe. Annie Wylie: Exactly. So basically this is a worldwide event, if you don't know you already know, to get together for a better internet. It's to encourage people to create better internet by developing skills and respect, responsibility, reasoning and resilience. But the other reason I guess we're here is because there's a massive digital divide between today's parents and today's young people. As K.J said, today's young people are first generation of young people that have actually grown up fully connected online and that's just an experience that their parents had. Krisztina: And I find it totally fascinating how different they're growing up and their development and their emotional, their social and in every way. The environment in which they grow, in which they are growing up to how I grew up is just so incredibly different and it's hard for me to sometime really get my head around how they form friends and the friendships they keep and how they keep them versus how we did, how I did. Well, not you, but me. So it really is just a ... It's a totally eyeopener and it's a really scary thing to get your head around to be honest. Annie Wylie: So I guess to start, I'm going to ask you Simon, why do you sue social media? Simon Cobley: Well, for me it started off when I was younger as more of a place of creative outlet. Like it was always ... Way back in the day it was connecting with little primary school friends, having a good game of farm ... Krisztina: Farm animals. Simon Cobley: Ville, Farmville. Annie Wylie: Farmville. Simon Cobley: You know those were the days. So it was a novelty back in the day when it started. It wasn't anything serious but of course that developed into keeping those relationships as we all moved into high school. So it was that pure connection and keeping in contact with people. And then as I started going into other social medias and things like Tumblr, it was more of a creative outlet sharing photos, using it as a creative person as somewhere to meet other creative people, be inspired by other people and share your own creative journey as well. Annie Wylie: And where are you now with using social media? Simon Cobley: Now it's a bit of everything. I find it as ... I still love to share. I use different social medias for sort of different things. I still love Tumblr for being more of a creative space and a creative outlet. But amongst all of my social medias, it's definitely about sharing a positive vibe as cheesy as that sounds but a positive vibe. A very open space, a space where we can talk about anything; health, fitness, balance in life. Just a space where my passion is making you feel comfortable in yourself, being confident in yourself and being happy and healthy in yourself in sort of every aspect I guess. Annie Wylie: And K.J why are your kids on social media? Why you think they're on social media. Krisztina: So social connectedness. I think that foremost I think it's about that's just how they engage. Whether they engage through chat groups, Instagram or whatever, that's their social outlet, their social environment. Well I know my eldest son, he will use social media for studying. So it's just bouncing ideas off. Where are you at with this? So I think that's kind of functional so that's kind of cool. But social for definitely that connectedness but also about information. They just ... Whatever their passion is and to your point, if their passion is about something, then they turn to social to really foster that passion and to find out more about it and then to look for advocates in that area and to ... The sort of social. Then they will follow people based on their passion and I think that's just another avenue. Simon Cobley: Yeah. Annie Wylie: Cool. So we've kind of touched on a couple of the things there but I think we go to just have a chat about the benefits of the internet and social media. So you've spoken about social connectedness and having a creative outlet. Is there sort of anything you want to expand on those or other benefits that you can kind of say with teens being on the interwebs? Krisztina: Can you go first? Simon Cobley: I was going to say, I think it's a great space for a lot of people whether you're someone who's introvert, extrovert, wherever you live, whether you live in a very social environment, whether you're struggling with something, whatever your aspect in life, wherever you are, whatever you're going through, you can always find someone who's going through the same thing or someone who can understand you or even just someone who can listen. And I think that is such an important aspect of social media that is so underestimated. Simon Cobley: Is that it's given us a way of realising we're not alone. Whether that's feeling insecure about something physically, mentally, spiritually, whether that's just not having friends and needed to find new friends. It's literally given us this huge avenue like an exposed area to find people even on the other side of the world that you could be friends with. And even that one person may be, even if it's just a message a day or if it's through the internet would seem scary, making a friend through the internet is possible, doesn't have to be scary, can be the person that takes you from almost somewhere very bad to being okay and realising you're not alone. Krisztina: That's actually such an incredible point because it is an even platform. It doesn't matter what your socioeconomic background is, it doesn't matter who you are, where you come from, what you are, you're in a level playing field and you can find like-minded people who are going through similar issues or have similar interests and have that similar dialogue on that even field I guess. Simon Cobley: Like you can use your personal traits to connect on that or you can just completely be on nothing or ... I kind of love that. It's amazing. I mean, I kind of call it networking. If it's sort of online, I consider it more like networking and sort of socialising in an aspect. But it's so- Krisztina: It doesn't discriminate. Simon Cobley: Yeah. I love it. And I think- Krisztina: For that sense. Simon Cobley: ... for those ... There are so many people out there I know whether it's ... Even if you're someone, you can be someone who had thousands of friends, you can be like a complete socialite but you could be so insecure of one thing and think you're the only person in the world. And it's the internet and it's the social media that will help you push past that. And in the same aspect of the way you can be someone who has absolutely no friends, you have absolutely nothing but then you can find a connection and you can find ... Even if it's not a person, you can find ... Simon Cobley: I know I've been in times where I've been a bit like secluded by myself or I've isolated myself, I found happiness and a [inaudible 00:10:38] of life by just not necessarily connecting with other people but for me being creative and being able to create something even if I was for example physically unwell and stuck in a bed and I can't go outside, I can't go socialise, I can't do whatever. Hey, I have Tumblr, I can look at really stunning photos that have inspired me to want to get better or that give me something to do during the day that makes me feel like I have a purpose. There's just so many- Krisztina: So it comes back to that connectedness, doesn't it? So no matter how you feel, even if you don't feel in the right frame of mind to socialise, to get out there, you still know that you can actually turn to the internet for your interaction, for your information and just kind of ... Simon Cobley: I think it can take you out of a headspace of ... Like take you out of a headspace in a sense and put you in another world. Krisztina: Interesting. Annie Wylie: So for those that have just joined us, we are Annie, Simon and K.J and we are here talking about teens, young people and the internet for Safer Internet Day. K.J a mom of four, Simon, certified young person. Simon Cobley: Mom of none. Annie Wylie: And I work for ReachOut on both the Parents and Youth service producing content. And we're just having a chat about how social media and the internet can bring a sense of social connectedness and make you feel like you're not alone. And we see that at ReachOut quite strongly. We have online forums, both for parents and the young people and it gives people the ability to anonymously, in the case of our forums, say something that's up and get some support. And that support might not even be tips, it might just be I've been there and the sense of ... Simon Cobley: Even just someone listening. Annie Wylie: Yeah. The sense of feeling like you're not alone can have a really strong impact on someone. But I think a question that a lot of parents have around this idea of social connectedness is around safety. So you meet people online ... Krisztina: Or you see people do the wrong thing online. Annie Wylie: Yeah, and where does that ... Like how do you deal with that? So I guess Simon for you is like really average user of social media, if someone contacts you that you don't know like what do you do around that? How do you keep things ... How do parents make sure that their kids are safe while still allowing them to take advantage of the great things that the internet and social media has to offer? Simon Cobley: I guess well, I was very fortunate that during my schooling and through my family as well and their jobs, I was always very aware of the security issues behind things like social media. So I kind of grew up with a bit of a heightened sensible awareness of that. I was also someone who was a bit just hyper-scared of being stalked one day, I don't know why. I think I might have watched a movie that freaked me out one day or something. But there are just a lot of little things that I do. It's always sort of just something in the back of my mind. And when you know what you're doing and you're a bit aware of hey, just don't post your location and why you're there, just be safe. Like just post it afterwards, it's not an issue. Like it's not going to benefit you or do anything if you just post it when you're not there anymore. It's just- Annie Wylie: And you mean like if you were doing an Instagram post don't put the location in the post at the time. Okay. Simon Cobley: And also things like if you're ... Like I live by myself for example, I wouldn't want to share photos that people could identify where I live for multiple reasons. It's just a matter of little things. And when it comes to people, 'cause I have to say that personally I do get a lot of people I have no idea who they are, who do message me. Whether it's just young women or men like looking for health advice or whatever or whether it's kind of people you don't really want in your inbox that you're a bit like, "How did you get here? Please just don't be here." You just use your kind of common sense and it's either like a block, you can block them straight away and I love those features. And don't ever be afraid like I'm someone who can very easily feel guilty about blocking someone. Like I don't know them but then you realise, you know what, there's nothing to be ... Like just block someone. You don't know them, why should you feel bad about it? Simon Cobley: And just being aware that when you're talking to someone you don't know them, like I doesn't matter how nice someone can be, it doesn't matter ... Like it doesn't mean you should be nice back when you're responding but there's no reason for you to ever share really personal information or personal details that could be traced unless you have a secure sense of what's going on, who they are. Just use your gut feeling and your gut instinct as well if it ever comes to sort of being friends with someone, like genuinely friends with someone and they want to meet up. I always do things like look for your mutual friends, do they have anyone you know, anyone you can sort of background check them on? Sort of straightforward things like that. And if you're ever going to meet someone you don't know, tell someone else, have your location on, always be aware. Krisztina: Sounds like you've being parented very well. Annie Wylie: Yeah. Krisztina: Because I think that- Annie Wylie: Simon's mom, dad. Krisztina: [inaudible 00:15:33]. I think that with everything you say and I think that having that open dialogue at home which I have with my children and kind of reinforcing the messages you just said, certainly no need for me to repeat, is kind of the key. Having the conversation, ignoring the fact that the internet is there, in my experience, doesn't work 'cause it's there. I either embrace it or I limit it. And because it's so much part of our children's lives, I have to look for ways to embrace it and for ways to incorporate it into our life in a safe and meaningful way. Krisztina: And to that extent, this whole notion around stranger danger on the internet scale and just having that dialogue about what it means if you post where you are, what it means if you ... I have this thing where I'll have a conversation with my children around TMI and to tell me things that they might have posted or etcetera and I go, "TMI? You tell me." Annie Wylie: Too much information. Krisztina: Sorry. Yeah, that's too much information. So kind of trying to get up to speed with the acronyms but I will try really hard and sometimes it's really insanely hard to not judge and just kind of question, "Why did you post that? What was the outcome you were looking for? Why did you curate, really kind of positioning yourself in a certain way? And where were you going with this and do you think x, y, z?" And so I try to kind of engage with them around what they're doing and why they're doing it. A, so I understand it better and B, so I have a chance of guiding maybe outcomes in a way and trying to instil a little bit of all the amazing learnings that you've got. 'Cause otherwise I just feel like if I talk at them and kind of reinforce my traditional view around stranger danger, I'm worried that I might not connect. Simon Cobley: I just think the best approach overall ... Well, that's what we say, everyone has their own way but I love your approach in that it is so helpful and I think more realistic to talk to your children about it and instead of just saying it's either like nothing or it's super black and white as opposed to don't tell your children not to do this, not to do that. It's about how to go about it in the best way, how to go about it in a safer way. Then you can connect with your kids, you can still talk about it but it's not this whole like, "My parents are being nuts, they're being over the top." Like I've had people say to me, I've had that approach where people come at me and they say, "You know, you shouldn't do this, you shouldn't do that." And immediately that anyone, when someone tells them not to do something, it's a bit like, "Hey, what do you think you're doing?" And you get a bit [crosstalk 00:18:01] Krisztina: And you guys are very crafty, I'll say that and I'm sorry, with all due respect. Simon Cobley: No, no, no. Krisztina: Because I ... And just quickly, I've had experiences where our children have been in the car and one child would say to one of my children, "Well, my parents police everything I do online but they don't know." And I'd be like pretending not to hear. Annie Wylie: So interesting you should say that K.J 'cause we have a question from Jessica saying, "Why are teens hiding their Instagram profiles?" So this is this whole thing of you've got your finsta and your insta so you've got your fake insta and so teens have a Instagram or a Facebook or whatever that they're connected with them on their parents and then they have a social media account where they don't have their parents. You're nodding in agreement. Krisztina: Yeah, 100%. And I guess I can only go off by the conversation I overheard amongst young people because they thought I wasn't listening, I don't know why because I'm like this. But it was always about my parents telling me to do x, y, z or expecting me to do x, y, z online. And well, actually I'm ... And I don't think that the person that was saying this was a normal child, a normal young person but it was really about, "Well, if I'm going to be so limited in what I am allowed to do and what I'm allowed to say and who I am, I will then just mask it. I will have another account and I will have more of an expression of self." And it was interesting like I felt like they were 13-year old children having this conversation and I was literally flabbergasted at the level of maturity that I know I probably did not have as far as this sort of mass media's concerned at that age. Krisztina: And so they are crafty and I know that the more I stop or I prohibit things to happen, the more ways they'll find to have different ways of being connected. And I've got lived experience across the board on that and so it's kind of caught between a rock and a hard place. Annie Wylie: So how have the conversations with your teens gone when you've asked them those questions, "Oh, why do you do this? How do you justify doing this?" Like do they respond? Krisztina: Yeah. And sometimes ... So my son might just go, "Oh mom, I'm just a teenager." I'm like, "Okay, it's illegal, sorry. Now you're a teenager, that is your profession for the moment. Fine." But often it's a very, and I put my adult word on this, it's a very curated existence. So young people would just really like ... They have a perception of self, they have a perception of I think what they would like to be, who they would like to be, what their passion is. And so they kind of craft their presence according to that lens, in that lens, in that framework. And so I think it all comes down to what they think of themselves, how they would like to be perceived. I think it's about validation in many ways and it is whatever is their little mind at that point that they want to project, it's how they will kind of ... And how they will act. Krisztina: And I think my role as a parent is just to make sure ... I think the big word around here is age appropriate. How do you navigate your child to kind of be who they want to be, who they see? Because now they're in this medium that we cannot stop and still act in age appropriate way. Annie Wylie: So one question on this, I'm going to go to K.J again but we'll come back to you Simon, but Alison, hi Alison, has asked, "K.J, do you have access to your kids' in all their social media apps?" Krisztina: I'd like to think so. Annie Wylie: So [inaudible 00:21:39] and there being no blocking issues or- Krisztina: No. So my son, well, has blocked me from his stories, insta stories which is where it's all about putting things up there that I wouldn't be interested in. Not that happy about it but at some point, there's a level of trust that I need to kind of have and if I ... And he knows that if that trust is broken, if somehow there's a backlash that we need to revisit that. But I don't revisit that I can say that. But really, in reality what does that mean? So really there's a lot of [crosstalk 00:22:11] Krisztina: So I do have access. We talk openly. I was aware that I was blocked from his stories, I didn't push it because I was- Annie Wylie: But you know that you are blocked. Krisztina: Yeah. But that said, his sister isn't and so she's kind of my little ... I mean, we parents find ways to. We can also be crafty but not as crafty as the young people and we just have to own that. Annie Wylie: So I think that really nicely segues as into a question from Neil which is around, "Is it okay to spy on your teens' social media accounts?" And I want to get your answer on this first Simon. Simon Cobley: I love this because I do have my mom and she will watch this at some point so howdy there mom. She does stalk my account, she stalks it. Now I have everything on public and I am happy to do that. I will say that a lot of my family has disagreed with things I've done over the years. Like me and my brother have had issues with it. I actually did have to block my brother of all people in my family, I had to block my brother on social media. I think when it comes to blocking and private Instagrams and those kind of things, it's not necessarily ... I think it's really easy to think, "Oh my God, they're posting something horrendous." I think sometimes it can be a bit of a lack of connection in the trust between each other sort of thing. Like it's not ... Simon Cobley: And sometimes it's not that it's that you're posting bad things, you're just posting things that you know that you disagree on and it's not necessarily ... You just don't want to make that deal about it sort of thing. And I know that was the case for me not with private Instagrams or even public posts I make. I'm very aware of what I'm posting and I do want to say to most people as well, again with the safety thing, when you're posting and if you're conscious of what you're posting as well, you just want to always think, "Would this ever impact me in the future," when you're posting. Like whatever it is, like will this ever impact me in the future? How may this be interpreted by multiple people? Like you might think you're posting something for one reason, some people might think other things. And it is something that can really impact jobs and all that. So it's just important to have- Krisztina: And it's funny you should say that because I will always say to my kids and I have had this thing where my 15-year old son's girlfriend posted interesting photos and I have said to him, "How would you feel if your grandmother saw that?" Because the thing is sometimes if I say to him, "How would you feel if your job, future employer ... I mean, kids just kind of think one day ahead at that age, young people, and so it's kind of, "Ah, that just doesn't sit right." But I'm like, "How would you feel if your sister saw that or if your grandmother saw that?" Simon Cobley: That's another thing, I always have to think 'cause in my head again, I've always said to my mom, I'm happy that she can stalk me 'cause otherwise it wouldn't be a public account. But for me it's also a way of me thinking when I do post everything ... Krisztina: You feel tough. Simon Cobley: Yeah. And I am grateful for that. As my mom says, as I've said, I'm happy- Krisztina: She on that, she's watching. Hi mom. Simon Cobley: Like in Melbourne on your little iPad I know you're there. But it's just something you got to be aware of when you post, regardless of whether you have a private Instagram or not, your photos are there, people can see them. And you never know where those people are going to go over the years. Back to the original question, aside traps [crosstalk 00:25:25] Annie Wylie: All very interesting but is it okay for parents to ... I think it's ... Maybe if you remove the word spy but is it okay for parents to be- Simon Cobley: I know what you mean. Personally I- Annie Wylie: ... connected to ... Simon Cobley: Personally I'm happy. I would much rather be connected. I find it offensive when parents spy or feel like they have to stalk. Krisztina: Like you mean chats 'cause that's another way parents can ... They can spy your chat or your insta chat accounts. Simon Cobley: Yeah. Well like anything that feels like when it's secretive. Krisztina: Yeah. Simon Cobley: I'm so happy. I would rather be friends with someone, like my parents on Facebook, like follow them on Instagram, I would rather all that because I think it's connection thing. Like for me personally I would be, and I have had issues with my family before of them secretly ... I don't want to lie- Krisztina: Secretly. I love that 'cause that's the point, isn't it? Secretly. Simon Cobley: It's secretly and it's like, "Have you even tried ... If you had just asked, if you wanted to talk about something, I would have happily spoken to you about things." Krisztina: I think you've hit the nail on the head. It's absolutely- Simon Cobley: And it's just communication. Don't feel you have to spy. Like just ask. Krisztina: Like I will say to my kids all the time, "You are underage now I'm your parent, I'm your guardian. It's just stuff I need to know whether you like that or not, there is a level at which point ..." So there's a point at which it's trust but it's also my responsibility too 'cause I need to know. And however you want to couch it, however uncool it is, let's have a conversation about what you're doing because I need to know. So I think your point about being open about it ... And again, you're just having this dialogue with them about, "I've got to do this because it's kind of my responsibility and you could be doing things that might get you into trouble." Simon Cobley: Yeah. Annie Wylie: So for those that have just joined us, I'm Annie, Simon, K.J. We're here talking about teens' social media internet use for Safer Internet Day. We've just been talking about is it okay for parents to spy/be connected to their kids online resounding kind of use it as an opportunity to connect, use it as an opportunity to have a conversation. If you're struggling with those sorts of conversations, you don't know how to start a conversation, hop on to ReachOut Parents, we've got lots of really great resources about how to start conversations. One tip I can give you right now is start the conversation when you're doing something that doesn't involve eye contact. So go for a drive. Simon Cobley: Driving. Oh, that was what I want to say. Annie Wylie: Do the dishes if you can convince your teenager to do the dishes with you, do something where you're not having to just look at them in the face and they'd have to look at you. It might be a hard conversation and they might not want to talk to you about it, and that's fine and that doesn't mean that you're a bad parent because they won't speak to you about it. And that also doesn't mean that they're a bad kid because they won't speak to you about it. I think it's also important to recognise that sometimes teenagers just don't want to talk to their parents about certain things. And what you can do as a parent is make sure that they have other adults in their life that they can talk to. So K.J I think it was really great you talking about how sometimes you have to say to your kids, "I'm your guardian, you're underage and we have to have this conversation sometimes." But a way to pivot on that if it's really not working is to say, "Well ..." Krisztina: You can talk to such and such. Annie Wylie: "You're underage, like I really think that it would be great for you to have a conversation with an adult and I know you and aunt Betty are really good friends. One of your close friends like ... Simon Cobley: Even friends' parents. Annie Wylie: Exactly. Simon Cobley: A lot of people feel it's so much easier to talk to their friends' parents. Annie Wylie: So don't be afraid of your kids opening up to other adults that you trust. Krisztina: When I've kind of seen a couple of photos that I've really wanted to have a dialogue with, say my son, and I've said, "That photo." His immediate, immediate reaction without even knowing where I was going with that conversation was like, "Mom, I just really ... Mom." That whole like rebirthing the whole thing. Annie Wylie: 'Cause you're mom. Krisztina: 'Cause I'm mom and I'm probably going to maybe have an opinion and he knows and he just- Simon Cobley: He knows what's happening and just knows straight away. Krisztina: Yeah, exactly. And so I remember thinking on my feet going, "I just don't want this conversation to die right now. I really want to have that conversation around that picture." And then I said, "What is the legal age of consent Jack?" And so he immediately kind of, "Well, it's 16." And so I actually interjected a question. So I try to kind of engage him in this sort of factoid way and pull him back in the conversation but literally I'm sure you've all done it. It's not revolutionary, it was like me just thinking, "[inaudible 00:30:12], how do I keep this conversation going 'cause I need to ..." Simon Cobley: I think it's ... So I've been there, done that with my family. Like I'm so used to that with social media, as soon as it's, "What have you posted?" "No, I've had enough. Don't give me this one again." And I think that's another reason it's so important to start that dialogue early when you're kids are onto social media. Like you don't want to start having those conversations and then be in the kid's mind. It's then recognised as we're having that conversation. Krisztina: Yeah, it's like a poem. Simon Cobley: Hey mom, why don't we just talk about Instagram even preventions? So try and talk about what kind of photos to post before it happens or start having that dialogue before anything happens. Don't wait for something to happen to have that conversation or don't wait for that kind of photo, there isn't one but there is, to be posted to have that kind of conversation. Just always want the conversation going, like keep it going. Krisztina: And I think the other thing was owning it. Like I can sometimes say to my kids, "You know that we could get into a lot of trouble for that." And so they'd be like, "Oh, could we? Could you?" So I think just that sort of posing that question and getting them thinking versus being quite authoritarian, I know, is something that kind of I'm navigating through at the moment with my children. Annie Wylie: And I guess the other thing with that is that more than likely your teenager is going to know more than you about social media and technology so use them as a resource. Krisztina: Tell me about it. Annie Wylie: Can you tell me about what the Instagram stories are? I don't really get it. And they might think you're a bit lame but ... Simon Cobley: It's fun. Annie Wylie: It's a chance to spend time together, it's a chance to actually learn from them what it is to them. Simon Cobley: I know I love actually showing when I'm with my mom 'cause I know my mom ... My dad's not super interested in social media but my mom really gets amongst it. And she's not on it but she's very intrigued by me on social media, maybe I should say it that way, and what other people are doing. She loves that. She's a bit nosy, I kinda live for it. But I know I love sitting and connecting with her by going through my Instagram feed with her. And even if something kind of saucy pops up that she might not be that interested into, it's kind of like, that's a good opportunity for me to say, "Hey, I know you wouldn't quite see this as an appropriate photo but it's a swimwear page. I really like it for the swimwear." Simon Cobley: Or stuff like that, communication and making them feel connected as well. I think it's really helpful if you can get your kids to be on the same page as well. I feel like parents really, I do give it to you guys, you have so much and if we could only realise that we make it easier not only for you guys but for ourselves if we would just talk more. And also try even expressing that to your kids. Krisztina: And that's where your point is so valid. I think it's all about understanding you guys and understanding why you do what you do on social. But then I think a challenge for us parents is then layering that on top of really fundamental important things around resilience that we need to teach our children. It's not about how many people like you, even though we see that that's important to you, in real life what does that really mean? So it's layering everything in this whole new world that's important to you against some very fundamental principles around quality of friendships, depth of friendships and not really living by what other people think of you, not being guided by your environment, being true to yourself. Krisztina: And I think the biggest challenge for us on a daily basis is navigating this on mask kind of power that kind of our children are under, if you like. That with some very fundamental basic principles that we need to instil in our children and we have to try our best to do so, so they're kind of functioning and they're healthy and they're resilient. I mean, at the core of that is how do we build resilience within our children whilst at the same time they're living this extroverted world? Annie Wylie: So I think you brought up a really good point there K.J around FOMO. So fear of missing out which you might have heard of before, maybe from your teens or maybe you experience it yourself, we all do I think. Simon Cobley: Oh yeah. Krisztina: Even I do. Simon Cobley: Yes. Annie Wylie: So we have a question submitted, well we had ... So we opened questions up for people to submit before the chat and a lot of parents just ... And I think this really sort of demonstrable of the digital divide we were talking about. Parents don't get why young people have to be connected all the time. One parent said, "Why are you online and connected?" This is what they wish they could ask their young person. "Why are you online and connected all the time? Who are you letting down by switching off? Just what exactly are you doing on that device all this time?" Simon Cobley: Yeah. Annie Wylie: So that was a sentiment that came through in many people's questions. How do you deal with FOMO and young people feeling like if they're not connected, then they're going to be missing out on something? How do you deal with it? Simon Cobley: Well for me, I have to say I'm lucky that I haven't have to deal with that too much. When I miss out on something and I'm sad about it, it's usually because I'm sick or if I'm trying to be good and not go out and spend money or do things like that. But on the few times where say people have been out and I haven't been invited or something, you get that little bit of like ... But I just I don't know why I move on. I just have this mentality where I think there's no point [inaudible 00:35:50] that's happening. And if there's an issue and you feel bad about it, talk about it. Simon Cobley: I think communication is the fix to everything which is ironic because you're on social media to communicate so I feel so many of us struggle to actually have that communication about tougher subjects to talk about. So maybe why wasn't I invited and things like that. And I think we just have to stop being scared to ask things because we can't know the answers. There's no point constantly stressing or overthinking things unless you're going to do something about it, which would be ask. Krisztina: Don't you think ... Like are we that ... Today's young people they're different to how I was. I went to school- Simon Cobley: FOMO is FOMO regardless of how you found out. Krisztina: If you were at home, I'm so sorry to admit but I still had the phone that rings on the wall or whatever and I was waiting for it to ring and then my friends would call and be on the phone for hours. But I was on the phone with one person so what this social media, what the Internet's done is I can be on the phone with many people but I'm still on the phone and my parents would always try to tell me to get the hell off the phone. And everybody was like ... You know when you had two lines, "Get off the phone. I want to make a phone call." Annie Wylie: Or you could hear your little brother pick it up and then like, "Get off. Stop listening to my phone call." Simon Cobley: And him breathing. Krisztina: How is this different? It's just that technology has widened the field. It's made every day, every phone call is a playground where thousands partake. And that just propels more conversation and more activity. So we as people are acting the same, it's just that technology has changed. And I think that that's kind of navigating through that is the challenge. Simon Cobley: Yeah. Annie Wylie: So I guess maybe some of that is around balancing your active time and your screen time and we talk about that a lot at ReachOut. There's a really great article on ReachOut about it but it's about as a family you can do a screen time audit. So all get together and that means parents and teenagers write down how much you're using screens for. So that might be TVs, iPads, iPhones, whatever. What are you using it for, come together as a group and have a look at those numbers and then work out, "Okay, what's necessary, what's optional?" And how does that compare to the amount of time we're spending being active? Annie Wylie: And active can mean lots of different things. Like active doesn't have to mean going to the gym or playing sport, like active can mean ... Honestly, you can use an app to be active. Go play Pokemon Go, have a run around. There's that like Zombie, Run! thing and you're like running from zombies and- Simon Cobley: Track some really loud music on a desk in your bedroom for 30 minutes. Annie Wylie: Yeah. Or active time can also just be walking the dog. So there's lots of different ways to kind of balance and it doesn't have to be either you're in your room gaming or you're playing rugby. There's no- Simon Cobley: Black and white. Annie Wylie: Yeah. They can mean so many different things. So I think it's a really great thing to do as a family, lead by example. If you're on your phone all the time 'cause the fact of the matter is, parents are on their phones and- Krisztina: Well yeah. And I think that we can often not set the best example because a lot of us are guilty of taking our work at home and just that need that's a whole different gamut of it's your employer expects you to be connected all the time. So there's always some pressure to be abrasive what's happening even when you're at home. So I think that trying to stop being connected when you're home as a parent is leading by example. Krisztina: The funny thing that I grapple with is you say to your kid, "Why are you on your phone all the time?" And that's the whole thing about this whole conversions of, "Well, I'm on the phone either I'm gaming, chatting to my friends, I'm watching something on your tablet, I'm watching something." Now this device has become everything. Annie Wylie: Or doing my homework. Krisztina: That's right. Simon Cobley: It's not all just social media. And even if it is, it's not just- Krisztina: That's right. So what are you on right now? Or how does that ... And that's I think to your point about actually mapping that out and saying, "Well okay, what does that look like?" This device represents this. TV, homework, social. And I think that that's where it kind of gets, for me, a bit confusing and also across for our children going, "Okay, you're on ... Okay, you're doing your homework. Okay, you're doing makeup, YouTube, all right. Okay, let's see what- Simon Cobley: James Charles. Krisztina: Yeah. I know, right? We have to get the pallet. [crosstalk 00:40:32] I know. I am- Annie Wylie: Okay, this isn't an advertorial for makeup. Krisztina: Yeah, I know. Simon Cobley: I love that. Krisztina: Anyway, sorry. Simon Cobley: Hey sisters, hey [crosstalk 00:40:32] Annie Wylie: Okay. So all jokes aside with makeup tutorials, the internet has the most amazing ability to teach. So we had a young person write in when we were sort of asking for contributions for this discussion. And they said, this is what they wanted the parents to hear about the internet and they said, "The internet has helped to empower people who have not been empowered before. The power of knowledge is something the internet has given to all of us." And I think that references then even playing field we were talking about with social connectedness. But it also talks about the fact that you can ... The creative outlet, you can follow your passions, you can- Simon Cobley: Put up Pinterest. Annie Wylie: You can find interesting things out. I know I personally spend a lot of time on the internet reading long form interesting articles. I read a really long article about this random fish that produces this weird jelly that has this strange ability to hold a hand in it or something the other day. Now, do I need that knowledge? Not really. But ... Simon Cobley: But I live for that. Annie Wylie: It's like super interesting, I'm learning about science. And is there a problem with that? Is there a problem with sitting on your phone for 15 minutes and scrolling through articles? So I think it's important you acknowledge that the internet can also empower us in lots of different ways and give us knowledge and I think Simon- Krisztina: This is when young people and parents agree. Annie Wylie: And I think Simon, yeah, you really spoke about that with your experiences of Tumblr and I assume probably Instagram as well has been that for you. Simon Cobley: Instagram has been a huge. I mean, as I said I started with Tumblr, I still use Tumblr to this day, absolutely love it. And I just think Instagram is now the next Tumblr. Or I mean, Tumblr was [inaudible 00:42:21] and obviously it's now Instagram. Instagram can provide such motivation. I feel like the news only publicises the negative of Instagram and only the really bad stories and you've got to realise that that many people use Instagram, that one story out of the billions and billions means that you really don't have as much to worry about as you think you do. Simon Cobley: Instagram for me is such a motivational place. A big thing I have to say I did a few years ago and I had sort of an epiphany was like my 16th birthday. I remember sitting there and going, "I need to change things." And it was to never follow anyone or have no negative influence on Instagram. Like even if it was someone I knew or a friend of mine or an old friend of mine and for whatever reason they just made me feel bad about myself or it's anything negative, I said even if I message them and just saying, "Look, I'm going to unfollow you. It's nothing personal, I just need to do this for myself. It's just a personal thing. I hope you can respect and understand that." Simon Cobley: Just don't follow people who make you feel bad. I mean, the whole thing, I hate how media talks about social media, and especially Instagram, as a place where people feel guilty about seeing other people and seeing all sorts of things. And that's like, well, that's in your control. That's not Instagram's fault. That's your- Krisztina: Which comes back to the basics, isn't it? If someone makes you feel not so great about yourself, it's playground, isn't it? Simon Cobley: Just a new form of ... Annie Wylie: So as a parent, how do you get your young person doing that? Krisztina: So I mean, really, to your point, I mean, and you [crosstalk 00:43:50] Simon Cobley: I think it stems to the person. Like it's how you've raised your person- Krisztina: How does that person, how does that content, how does that make you feel? And if it doesn't make you feel so great, just think about that. That's the dialogue you need to have. And so I do try and bring it back to that because I think that's kind of how I try and live my life. How does certain situations make me feel? And so I'm really kind of trying to instil that in my children. Because you can't control them, you can't ... They won't listen too so you just really got to bring it back to, in my view, basics. Simon Cobley: One mother I follow on Instagram that actually I followed her for years before she even had children, I loved 'cause at the time I was a vegan blogger and I was very passionate about veganism and trying to spread the word. And I love how she put it and it kind of has resonated with me for like the remainder of life. But inspire people to live the lifestyle or like live the traits you want them to live. Don't try and shove it on them sort of thing. So I've always had that. It's kind of that whole lead by example sort of thing. If you want your kids to be positive, if there's something you want to see in your kids, be the example. And you've obviously instilled that very well and that sounds fantastic. Krisztina: Well, I'm a work in progress. Simon Cobley: Aren't we all? No one's perfect. Krisztina: Honestly, work in progress. I think we all are and that's just what we need to embrace and own. I think it's just ... You're going to mess up. Simon Cobley: You got to live through your mistakes. If you didn't have a down, you've never had an up. Krisztina: And the thing is everything moves so fast. Technology, it's two weeks, two months, two years time we'll be playing with a whole new platform, whole new apps and things will change again. So it's about trying to stay current but really you can only stay so current. It's unrealistic for us to keep up to speed with everything that the young people do. So in my view, it's really just bringing it back to basics and saying, "How does it make you feel? How do you not sweat?" Quantity, quality. Krisztina: And the other really interesting thing that I've noticed is in my time, I think we had probably a few really good friends. There was a lot more depth to our friendships. Now what I find with my children they have a lot more friends. Simon Cobley: The little circles, the [crosstalk 00:46:05] Krisztina: There are a lot more friends but I think that their ability to form that depth of friendship is more restricted because in this fickle online world that we live in. And so what I try and do is I try and kind of navigate and do try sort of- Simon Cobley: You must have fun remembering all your kids' friends. Krisztina: Well ... But really, it's how do you ... And I think that's the question, if anybody has the answer about this, how do you help your children form those meaningful depth of relationship or at least tell them about it or how do you teach that, that we learned because of how we grew up. Annie Wylie: So for those that are just tuning in or tuned in recently, we are here talking about teenagers and their internet and social media use for Safer Internet Day. I'm from ReachOut, my name is Annie. I'm the content manager across Parents and Youth services. This is Simon, certified young person. Simon Cobley: I love that. Annie Wylie: And she lives in [inaudible 00:47:07]. Sharing all her wisdom about being a teen and a young person using social media, dealing with her parents on that. And this is K.J, a certified mother of teens. Krisztina: Got the birth certificates [inaudible 00:47:25]. Annie Wylie: Sharing what she's done and also I think some questions that you still have which I think really shows that no one has the answers to all of this at the moment. And one thing that I think that's come through really strongly is the importance of having consistent conversations and asking your teenagers what's happening and giving them the opportunity to answer. Whether that's doing something that's not face to face like driving the car so they don't have to look at you in the eye, hooking them up with other trusted adult that they can talk to about it. Annie Wylie: And like on that note, I think what we've had a lot of questions about and I think something that parents are really worried about is things like sexting, sending nudes, that kind of stuff. So I guess the reason I sort of came to that is one tip that was a way to sort of talk about with if you find out your kids have been sexting or sending nudes or indeed maybe just received that sort of communication, a good step can be to find another trusted adult they can talk to 'cause it's a pretty awkward conversation. And a lot of teens will really sort of shy away from talking to their parents about that. And absolutely they might have to have that conversation with you at some point. But if you can bring another adult, whether it's an aunt, an uncle, a best friend. And I think that's really great. Krisztina: And if you stumble across it, which I have. Annie Wylie: That would have been fun. Krisztina: Yeah, it was my son so not my daughter. But you stumble across something and you think, "Oh God." And it does, I mean, I lost quite a bit of sleep over it but I think ... And to your point, yes it is about introducing that trusted person to have a conversation. But then also I think my conversation was, "Are you aware that the age of consent? Are you aware of how this might be ..." So I think that putting that lens on, "Do you understand that by law, this and this. What you're doing [crosstalk 00:49:40] this is not me. Annie Wylie: Can add a sense of ... Simon Cobley: That's definitely ... yeah. Annie Wylie: Sort of removal to the conversation so then you can have [crosstalk 00:49:43] Krisztina: And it is all about ... I'm trying to quite often remove myself so I'm not like the mother coming down on them. I'm trying to be that sort of paint the picture of really what's happening. So if you have a picture of somebody who is under the age of consent and if it's nude, you're busted, you're gone and I'm gone, probably alongside of you because ... I mean, I say that because I think that they need to understand that we're all in that ship and so you need to kind of have that awareness. Krisztina: And then definitely I think your point about that sort of trusted person, I think that can't be stressed enough and that's where the depth of relationships comes in. Not everyone has extended families but how do you then introduce that sort of mental, that positive role model into- Annie Wylie: It might be someone, it might be a sports coach, it might be someone at your church, it might be someone that they only connect with online so it might be an overseas relative that they can Skype with or send WhatsApps with. Simon Cobley: Grandparents, friends' parents. Annie Wylie: There's sorts of lots of opportunities to try and identify that for your kid. Krisztina: Well even like you said, friends' parents. Simon Cobley: Friends' parents I find that's the easiest way for a lot of people. Krisztina: Interestingly I've had quite a few of my kids' friends talk to me in that sort of role, exploratory, fact finding way. And I hope that my children do the same. Simon Cobley: I think it's really ... I know for me personally it was always such a lovely thing when I was younger 'cause I know I am quite different to both my parents to be able to connect with even my friends' parents was always such a nice experience. So both encourage your children to be friends with your ... And that's also you can also secretly, I feel bad for saying this as a teen but as a parent you could talk to the other parent as well. They don't have to share. I wouldn't go as far as sharing everything that your child might have said to them but as long as the other parent can say they're okay, don't worry. Krisztina: Yeah. And I think that's where I think parents sort of trust or you've heard that every parent does the right thing to some extent. Well, if there's real red flags being discussed, let's feedback to the parent. Simon Cobley: Yeah, 100%. Krisztina: Which I've had and I've back. And I think that it's up to I guess you are left with processing the information you're told and making sure that you kind of not feeding back something pretty important. And then feeding back something if there's a red flag or if there's something that's important that needs to be fed back. And I just hope ... And there's a bit of a trust. You just hope that that comes back your way if the situation was reversed. Annie Wylie: I guess with this sort of topic but I think it applies to things like cyber bullying and trolling and all of those sort of ... They're sometimes rare but negative things that happen online. Do you think this is sort of a thing that came from the parents that submitted some questions? Do you think young people are fully aware of the permanency of what is online? That if they comment on something, that it can exist forever? That if they post a photo it can exist forever? I mean, in your experience, do you think young people fully comprehend that? Simon Cobley: I don't know. Like I don't think anyone really can fully comprehend their own choices unless something bad really happens which is why I do think it is important for us to make mistakes and learn from those mistakes. And I think as well we've grown up so much with parents just drilling that or schools drilling that, "It's there forever." No, no, no. It's just the same thing and it just goes in one ear and out the other. Krisztina: Such a good point. Simon Cobley: Because you said so many times no one wants to hear it. So I think it's so important to think about more positive ways of having those conversations, I just think whenever a parent or an adult or schools most of the time, not all the time, some people are great but when they're having those conversations, it's always the same things. It seems like you're getting a drilling. It's so much better to do ... For example what we're doing now and have a discussion about it as well as hearing from a young person I know it's always the things that have hit home for me of the permanency and I've had quite close friends many years back, have issues with nudes, a number of my friends. And turned out to be spread among schools. A huge thing. Police got involved and it's not until times like that that you really realise it all is which is why I think it is so important to ... If you're a school, if you're [crosstalk 00:54:11] to hear stories but not in a sense ... Simon Cobley: Like if you're a parent during it with your child, you don't want to hear that new story where it's like, "Did you see the new story about this chic?" And kids are like, "Oh my God, here we go again." Krisztina: It's so true. Annie Wylie: Well, how can they do it? Simon Cobley: I think the best way to talk about it is like having ... If you're doing it as a parent or a kid, I'd be like, "Let's talk about it, let's sit and have a discussion." Go get a coffee together, do something fun first. That's like the first thing. You want to create a positive space before you talk about anything because first of all, if you're in a crap space, you then bring in that subject, kid's going to be, "No. I'm just leaving." Go do something fun and then maybe you both on your phones for a second and be like, "Well, I just got a little news article, this poor girl." I always think the best way to et your kid to hear is for them to feel it's more relatable. Find someone you know who's had an experience, see if they've got a friend who's had an experience. If you're doing- Krisztina: Talk about their own experience. Simon Cobley: Oh, 100%. That would be the best. I mean, if you- Krisztina: No, you go. Simon Cobley: Oh, no you go. Krisztina: No, I was just going to say that I think I've always ... Like I do say to my kids, "You haven't reinvented the wheel of stupidity." So I will say that to my kid all the time because I've done it, your father, everybody's done it, we all do it, that's life. It's just the legacy that your stupidity leaves just to keep on your radar. So I kind of sort of say around there's no timestamp to stupidity. You can live in perpetuity if you have it online. But the thing with young people and I think that's just how they're wired is they don't think a month, two months, three months ahead, they live for the day. So for us to say, for me to say, "It will be there forever when you're looking at a job." I'm like, "A job? I'm just trying to get through year eight." And that's just like it does not even compute. Simon Cobley: I think it's so much harder at younger ages. Like I really only ... I mean, I'm lucky that I had a lot of this ingrained in me from my mom who is senior in her job so she has always had that you need to think about your bigger picture always. But it's really hard. I can imagine it's really hard to get those into younger kids and I just think it is important to try in the most positive way and not create it as a nagging. I think nagging is ... Try not to make it sound nagging, don't repeat the same thing over and over, think of different ways to reword it, think of positive ways to talk about it, try and have discussions. Slip it in there real slow in a different way. Simon Cobley: But I think it's really important to, without nagging, but keep kind of try to ingrain it in them. Just being like, "You might not think about this now but just think about the bigger picture or if this would go in your CV, just think about it." I don't know, stories are really helpful. Krisztina: And it's interesting how you said there were incidences where the police were involved. Simon Cobley: Yes. It's times like that that you really need the severity of that. Whether it's ... I feel so lucky that the private school I went to brought in so many external resources of people who came and spoke to us with personal experiences about being safe and all that with drugs and all that kind of thing. And for me, the only times things really hit with that was when you heard genuine stories of people you knew or people who closely were related in a sense that they were the same age in your area or something like that. Simon Cobley: And that's sort of the secret of how to hone into it. It's not telling your child, "If you do this, this is going to happen." It's saying, "I just want the best for you and I don't want you to end up saying like this. Like look what happened to you." Krisztina: Yeah. Even at that scale, I think it's almost incomprehensible. Simon Cobley: Still. Krisztina: Isn't it? I don't know. Simon Cobley: Well, say, I feel it's so much easier when you hear a story that you can relate to, like you're the age, you're like, "I can relate to what that person is saying." Kind of in a sense of what we're doing now so people can relate to what we're saying, they want to hear it. Same with your kid, like if your kid ... They don't want to hear your mom saying, "Don't do it because I'm telling you not to," they want to hear, "You shouldn't do it because do you want to end up like that or do you want that to happen to you?" Like it's annoying and it seems frustrating that you have to do it that way. I totally understand that from a parent's perspective. Simon Cobley: I have to say I'm kind of a rare person in that I really get all of that and most kids would just be like ... And I've been like that but that for me was the thing that that's how it hit me. Was when I heard about other people having such severe ... Whether it was for drugs, it was things like that, I was never into any of that anyway but when I would get warned from my own friends and family actually. Like that's how bad it got. I was like, "I don't want any of you doing anything because that person died. I don't want any of you to do that." Annie Wylie: And so that's actually definitely like a tip that we'll give to parents is to use things that happened in the media, a film that might come out, an article that you might read to spark a conversation so that it is relevant, like you're up to date, you're actually referring to real things. Because I think that what we see in our services is that the ... So we know that there's a digital divide and then that digital divide can also be amplified by not using relevant examples when parents are wanting to talk to their teenagers about things and that can really amplify that divide so that teenagers just flies over because they're like, "Mom doesn't know what she's talking about." But if mom does know what she's talking about because she's actually referring to something that's happened last weekend to a 15-year old in Northern Queensland then it actually creates something that's really tangible and really relevant to the young person that you're talking to. Annie Wylie: So we've got not a lot of time left. In fact we're a little bit over nine o'clock but we'll have one more question from the audience. So if anyone who's just tuned in, we're about to sort of start wrapping up for our Safer Internet Day chat about teens and social media. I'm Annie from ReachOut, Simon, certified young person, K.J, certified mom of teens, multiple. So we're going to take another question from our audience. Which one should we go for? This one's from Neil, "How do you talk to ..." So I'll start with you on this K.J, "How do you talk to teens about what's real and what's not on social media?" Krisztina: That's such a good question. Simon Cobley: That's super interesting. I like that. Krisztina: So I mean, it depends on the context and I believe it's something that ... And the context being what the subject matter is that is brought to my attention and indeed what the impact its had on my child. So if they see something horror, if they see something that's probably age inappropriate, certainly around porn. I mean, kids are unfortunately exposed to a lot of porn way early than I think we were. And I think putting that context of make-believe it's a movie is kind of how I position it. So if they see something super scary or maybe super, like I said, inappropriate, I will just say that's acting, that's make-believe. Krisztina: So I think I always try to sort of start that base of it's not exactly real. And because I've kind of always done that and I'll say, "Well ..." And I will always say to them, "Well, what do you think that is? You've seen that that scared you and they'll go, "I know, it's not real." And I say, "Well, okay. Well, let's have more of a dialogue around that." Certainly, if it's something very sexual, I'm just saying, it's not real, it's not what real love is or it's not what ..." and then kind of progress from there. Simon Cobley: That's how I've done. Annie Wylie: Do you find Simon, you're ever sort of stuck between posting things that you know are real or that you kind of curate for your audience? Simon Cobley: Oh, that is so accurate. Well, no. For me personally like I pride myself on posting really real things, like photos I want to post for me not to try and create perception. But like there is such a huge I think ... But immediately when you said real what came to mind for me was editing photos and the idea that- Krisztina: So funny, I was thinking YouTube and what they see. Isn't it funny how the notion of real ponders up different things. For me it's all about what my kids are exposed to and what they- Simon Cobley: Well, for me, I think for me and probably mostly women I would say, much more than men sadly but it's reality, the perception of how people look and this whole idea of looking a certain way, acting a certain way, being a certain way is huge nowadays, especially on Instagram. And I think for me the reality like even now I still get caught up, someone who's very hyper-aware of it still gets caught up and then sometimes being like, "Why don't I look like that? Why don't I look like that? Why don't I have those legs or my face doesn't look like that, my skin is not that smooth?" And I just have to sit myself back into reality and you got to be like, "Hey, just remember that there's a two-dollar editing app that can make you go from a size whatever to a size whatever." Like it's just hitting reality and reminding your kids. Simon Cobley: Well for me it's just sitting back and saying regardless of if it's edited or not of how they look like, we're all unique and embrace your own beauty. So I think there's no point. To me personally, I sit back and I go, "Okay, just remember that there's a thousand editing apps. You really don't know what someone looks like or anything about someone until you see them in real life." Krisztina: And that's again, like it comes back to, it's not that dissimilar to how ... I saw- Simon Cobley: Magazines. Krisztina: Magazines and posters and I look like this and people look perfect. And I'm sure that I've been in front of my bathroom mirror trying to kind of look almost like her in some weird way. But the difference now is that kids can do it. They can take that photo of themselves, they can actually look more like that perfect vision that they see elsewhere or they see by their social influences or whatever. And so now they have been enabled to do something about it and post it, I wasn't. Simon Cobley: Yeah. Krisztina: So the actual motivation, the actual drive, the actual basic is not too dissimilar. It's just how we're able to act on that impulse and what is quite natural to kind of [crosstalk 01:04:39] Annie Wylie: And you're having those conversations with your kids about their self esteem issues behind that. Krisztina: Yeah. And I will say ... And my daughter went through a whole phase of ... She would only post her back with like her hair doing this in a certain way. And I'm just like ... And I just said, "So is this your phase right now?" This is because ... And she's like, "Yeah, because I feel conscious of this, this and this." So we had that conversation. I mean, I was very clumsy but at the same time it was about her curating, her feeling insecure about something and it's just a natural ... Krisztina: We go through this emotionally with growing up. It's an emotional rollercoaster for young people. So however they feel about them at that time, they will try and put their best foot forward because you can and they are trying to get validation on that best foot, which is again, natural. It's just the media that's enabled it to kind of be taken to that nth degree. Simon Cobley: I think the best way to go about that honestly is just ... Like if I felt self conscious and I've been there so many times. Like I have gone through all different, both physical phases and mental phases, been everywhere in my size and shape in all the different ways. And the best thing and the best message I feel you could ever give anyone regardless of age, regardless of whether you're a parent or whether you're whatever age is just to say yore beautiful in yourself. Simon Cobley: And I feel like taking away that whole physical element as well and just thinking love comes from within. It's not about necessarily what's on the outside and making people feel comfortable in their skin. I mean, that's what I am so passionate about especially and that's where I want to take my online presence is helping people find that. And I just think that's what it's all about, just telling people we're all unique, why would you want to look at someone else? That's what makes us who we are. Like love yourself for that. And yeah, you go through those phases. We all go through phases. We won't post photos, we won't wear this, we won't do that but you can still be working on yourself during those phases and embrace the good days, fight harder on the bad days and [crosstalk 01:06:36] Krisztina: I always say to my kids, particularly my daughter, I know you want to look your best, we all do. But it's also subjective and around every corner you might think there's someone better or someone this or someone that. And then if you keep looking around every corner, you'd be more busy looking around the corner than actually being happy. Simon Cobley: I had a revelation where I was like, "Would I ..." 'Cause I don't know, I've been through stages [inaudible 01:06:56] sometimes where it's just like, "I'm not going to go to the beach because I just feel gross and just at a pizza. Like it's not happening." And then I think, "When I'm on my deathbed, would I rather have gone to the beach or would I rather be sitting at home caring about what I look like?" You'd rather be in the moment than caring about what you look like. And you feel in most situations a lot happier when you're just actually enjoying life as opposed to feeling so conscious about how you look doing it. Annie Wylie: Yeah. And I think a lot of that is ... That that's what gets played out on social media. And so it's having those conversations about body image with your young person. We've got hips of really great resources on ReachOut Parents about that so definitely hop on and we'll get those links posted in the comments below the video. But yeah, thank you so much guys for coming in and having a chat. We've covered a lot of ground from body image to sexting, to driving in the car, to have good conversations. We've spoken about different resources you can use, different ways to have conversations. You've both shared incredibly candidly and generously and we really appreciate that. So thank you so much for tuning everyone at home. Happy Safer Internet Day and we'll post some resources in the links below.